this was a great post, thank you! i did not know that Ava used an existing and endangered language with no mention or acknowledgement of it, which is disappointing to say the least. i pre-ordered A Theory of Dreaming months ago, so i will definitely inspect it more closely for xenophobia as i’m reading it! and i will keep an eye out for xenophobia in any books of hers i read in the future. if it persists in their future novels, i feel i’ll have no choice but to stop reading their books :(
I was very upset to discover that😭 it’s just another thing on top of the other stuff. I’m curious if it will or not! I guess we’ll see. since effy “apologized” to preston maybe not, but who knows. yeah I just don’t think she’s the author for me anymore:/ ty for commenting!
i've never read anything by this author and yet lady macbeth was on my tbr, guess it no longer is... thank you for this. Breton is indeed an endangered language like all local languages in France. We have many, one for every region, and the government has been trying to silence them. I don't speak any myself even though I've lived in different areas with their own local tongues.
I’m glad I could bring some attention to this issue. it’s so disheartening seeing a language die out like that, which makes it even worse (in my opinion) to see it be co-opted like this without any mention at all.
Very interesting review (I haven't read any of reid's book and not planning to) but I do find it very lazy of authors to use an existing language & market it as a fantasy language(work hard for the craft!)....it feels icky & also there's something sinister about using an endangered language, making it a fictional one & then not even acknowledging it, as if forcing it to be extinct. Also similar concerns abt racism in Donna tart's work has come up as well. A good review!
right?? I found it very upsetting when I found out this information. I really wish this was talked about a lot more in bookish spaces. not even acknowledging it just leaves such a bad taste. tysm!! 🤍
Bestie, with love, the entire point of the book was Effie being racist and realizing she was wrong. Yes, she said problematic things. You were supposed to notice. It was wildly intentional. The primary theme of the book was the death of long held notions. Did you also notice the grooming? That was supposed to be bad too.
As far as the language, Ava actually does talk a lot about Breton in both her books. In the foreword, in fact. She doesn’t frame it as a fake language, this is speculative fiction. The whole point of speculative fiction is to take real world events, places, ideas, ect. And add elements like magic. The ENTIRE POINT of a study in drowning was how the English committed cultural and literal genocide on the welsh, stealing parts of their culture as well as their lives and livelihoods. The overarching theme was SUPPOSED to be “white girl is oppressed in a system but not as oppressed as this guy”.
ty for your comment! I understand what ava reid was trying to accomplish in a study in drowning, but in my opinion, it fell flat. preston never really challenged her beliefs of argantians and he didn’t push back against her xenophobia. no one else called her out on it. she thinks preston isn’t that bad because she starts to develop feelings for him. however, it has been a little while since I read this, so if there are moments in the book where preston (or another character) calls her out on her bigotry and challenges her xenophobic views, please let me know. even when effy apologizes to preston, he doesn’t really hesitate to forgive her after all she has said to him. I think the way reid went about it was a bit lazy and haphazardly done. but that is my opinion of course, you don’t have to think the same. you say it’s obvious, but a lotttt of reviews I’ve seen and in videos talking about the book, it is never mentioned.
even if the xenophobia wasn’t an issue in a study in drowning, it definitely was in lady macbeth. there was no reason or point to her constantly insulting the scottish people in the novel, yet it’s in there for, I don’t know, just because? especially when the original play never indicated a hatred towards scottish people.
lastly, there is no foreword in a study in drowning, and it is never mentioned in her acknowledgments. unless you’re talking about a different book? it is still an issue. she does frame it as a fake language. she takes the Breton language and uses it as the argantian language in the book. if people don’t know what Breton is, which is highly likely considering it is an endangered language, that’s a problem, because it is never acknowledged in the book. she also has a history of taking languages and misusing them in her novels, as I stated in this article, using phrases and terms incorrectly or in a way that doesn’t make sense to its original context. I think, as an author, the bare minimum you should do is make sure the language you are using is implemented correctly in your books.
I do appreciate your perspective, though, and I hope this clarifies my stance.
this was a great post, thank you! i did not know that Ava used an existing and endangered language with no mention or acknowledgement of it, which is disappointing to say the least. i pre-ordered A Theory of Dreaming months ago, so i will definitely inspect it more closely for xenophobia as i’m reading it! and i will keep an eye out for xenophobia in any books of hers i read in the future. if it persists in their future novels, i feel i’ll have no choice but to stop reading their books :(
I was very upset to discover that😭 it’s just another thing on top of the other stuff. I’m curious if it will or not! I guess we’ll see. since effy “apologized” to preston maybe not, but who knows. yeah I just don’t think she’s the author for me anymore:/ ty for commenting!
i've never read anything by this author and yet lady macbeth was on my tbr, guess it no longer is... thank you for this. Breton is indeed an endangered language like all local languages in France. We have many, one for every region, and the government has been trying to silence them. I don't speak any myself even though I've lived in different areas with their own local tongues.
I’m glad I could bring some attention to this issue. it’s so disheartening seeing a language die out like that, which makes it even worse (in my opinion) to see it be co-opted like this without any mention at all.
Very interesting review (I haven't read any of reid's book and not planning to) but I do find it very lazy of authors to use an existing language & market it as a fantasy language(work hard for the craft!)....it feels icky & also there's something sinister about using an endangered language, making it a fictional one & then not even acknowledging it, as if forcing it to be extinct. Also similar concerns abt racism in Donna tart's work has come up as well. A good review!
right?? I found it very upsetting when I found out this information. I really wish this was talked about a lot more in bookish spaces. not even acknowledging it just leaves such a bad taste. tysm!! 🤍
Bestie, with love, the entire point of the book was Effie being racist and realizing she was wrong. Yes, she said problematic things. You were supposed to notice. It was wildly intentional. The primary theme of the book was the death of long held notions. Did you also notice the grooming? That was supposed to be bad too.
As far as the language, Ava actually does talk a lot about Breton in both her books. In the foreword, in fact. She doesn’t frame it as a fake language, this is speculative fiction. The whole point of speculative fiction is to take real world events, places, ideas, ect. And add elements like magic. The ENTIRE POINT of a study in drowning was how the English committed cultural and literal genocide on the welsh, stealing parts of their culture as well as their lives and livelihoods. The overarching theme was SUPPOSED to be “white girl is oppressed in a system but not as oppressed as this guy”.
ty for your comment! I understand what ava reid was trying to accomplish in a study in drowning, but in my opinion, it fell flat. preston never really challenged her beliefs of argantians and he didn’t push back against her xenophobia. no one else called her out on it. she thinks preston isn’t that bad because she starts to develop feelings for him. however, it has been a little while since I read this, so if there are moments in the book where preston (or another character) calls her out on her bigotry and challenges her xenophobic views, please let me know. even when effy apologizes to preston, he doesn’t really hesitate to forgive her after all she has said to him. I think the way reid went about it was a bit lazy and haphazardly done. but that is my opinion of course, you don’t have to think the same. you say it’s obvious, but a lotttt of reviews I’ve seen and in videos talking about the book, it is never mentioned.
even if the xenophobia wasn’t an issue in a study in drowning, it definitely was in lady macbeth. there was no reason or point to her constantly insulting the scottish people in the novel, yet it’s in there for, I don’t know, just because? especially when the original play never indicated a hatred towards scottish people.
lastly, there is no foreword in a study in drowning, and it is never mentioned in her acknowledgments. unless you’re talking about a different book? it is still an issue. she does frame it as a fake language. she takes the Breton language and uses it as the argantian language in the book. if people don’t know what Breton is, which is highly likely considering it is an endangered language, that’s a problem, because it is never acknowledged in the book. she also has a history of taking languages and misusing them in her novels, as I stated in this article, using phrases and terms incorrectly or in a way that doesn’t make sense to its original context. I think, as an author, the bare minimum you should do is make sure the language you are using is implemented correctly in your books.
I do appreciate your perspective, though, and I hope this clarifies my stance.